Episode 45 - Kimberly Crowe: Escaping the Golden Handcuffs & Choosing a Different Ladder to Climb

If it’s not fun, it’s not worth doing. <--- This was the lesson Kimberly Crowe learned as she found herself at the top of the corporate ladder realizing this was a ladder she never wanted to climb. 

We chat about how she escaped the golden handcuffs and created her own path.


About Kimberly Crowe 👇
Kimberly Crowe helps people break free from limiting beliefs, find joy in their work, and achieve high performance with practical, actionable strategies.

She’s an international keynote speaker, TEDx speaker, and founder of Speakers Playhouse, a gamified networking event for speakers, and Entrepreneurs Rocket Fuel, a community for entrepreneurs and coaches.

Connect with Kimberly 👇

Website: https://www.speakersplayhouse.com

Linked In: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kimberly-s-crowe

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kimberly.susan.crowe?mibextid=kFxxJD
FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100033418397562&mibextid=kFxxJD
FB Group: https://m.facebook.com/groups/3936867803076694/?ref=share&mibextid=S66gvF

IG: https://www.instagram.com/entrepreneursrocket?igsh=MWU5Mnd4MWU1YzJoNQ==

If you want to break free from the 9 to 5 or spend more time with your family, then check out this FREE webinar that goes over exactly what I'm doing to create time and financial freedom.
https://www.breakingfreewithlindsay.com/learn

If you ever have any questions or want to reach out - I'd love to connect with you. Send me a DM on Facebook (it's the best way to reach me!)

Transcript

WEBVTT

1
00:00:02.750 --> 00:00:07.769
Lindsay Ford: I am so excited to have Kimberly Crowe here with me today. Welcome to the podcast. Kimberly.

2
00:00:07.770 --> 00:00:11.090
Kimberly Crowe: Lindsay. I'm super glad to be here. Thanks for having me.

3
00:00:11.090 --> 00:00:25.079
Lindsay Ford: No problem I would love for you to take us through. I think it's related to your work story. But there was one thing that stood out as we were as you were submitting the application. And I was going through your notes.

4
00:00:25.080 --> 00:00:44.759
Lindsay Ford: It says if it's not fun, it's not worth doing, and that is like my type of slogan. But I think, like so many people think that things just need to be hard in life, or that life is hard, so why don't you take us through your journey? To sort of arriving? To that I'll say conclusion for lack of a better word.

5
00:00:44.760 --> 00:01:13.209
Kimberly Crowe: All right, fair enough. Yeah, it's a fun story. And actually, well, it's fun. But like, it's the story that everybody has, probably. But that's ups and downs right? So I did. Like many of your listeners, I entered the workforce probably the way a lot of them did, which is, I went to school I got a good job. I went to college. I got a good job with health insurance, and I started climbing the corporate ladder, and I worked at a fortune 1,000 company.

6
00:01:13.220 --> 00:01:38.520
Kimberly Crowe: and I did very well. I got promoted. I enjoyed my work, and kept growing and sort of climbing that corporate ladder, and as I grew I was there for about 17 years. About 15 of them were good, the last 2 not so much, and as I got sort of to the top of that ladder. I looked around to see the other people that were at my level and above.

7
00:01:38.820 --> 00:01:46.269
Kimberly Crowe: and I thought, I don't want to be any of these people when I grow up like I just they're not happy. They're not having fun.

8
00:01:46.410 --> 00:02:09.749
Kimberly Crowe: They're bitter, they're angry. They don't treat their people well. Many of them are super unhealthy. Many of them were divorced, and and that's nothing against people who get divorced. I'm divorced, and many of your listeners probably are as well, but they just live this very unhappy, bitter, angry, miserable life, and they seem to be taking it out on many of their employees, and I thought I just

9
00:02:10.110 --> 00:02:18.789
Kimberly Crowe: I don't want to be that right. And I'd spent this time climbing this ladder, and it was not even a ladder I wanted to be on, and I thought.

10
00:02:19.380 --> 00:02:29.939
Kimberly Crowe: I'm in golden handcuffs, right? I was making a lot of money. I was in a multi 6 figure income and I had a lot of responsibility. I was an executive director.

11
00:02:30.260 --> 00:02:54.949
Kimberly Crowe: and I thought, I really don't want to keep doing this. So over the next over the last 2 years that I was there we kept trying to find other positions that might be good for me, or other ways in which I might serve the company because I really enjoyed my ride up. But it just it wasn't to be. And I thought, Okay, well, it's time for me to move on and do something else. And I, just because I wasn't happy anymore.

12
00:02:55.290 --> 00:03:22.390
Kimberly Crowe: And I thought, Okay, the thing that I need to do is I need to branch out on my own because I don't want to work for a competitor. I don't. I just need to do my own thing. So I'm going to open a business as an entrepreneur now. I'd had a few businesses on the side, you know. Maybe like an Mlm. Business. They call it direct sales. Now, where you know you have some sort of little side entrepreneurship. I owned rental properties, and like some other things that I'd gotten my fingers into.

13
00:03:22.390 --> 00:03:35.610
Kimberly Crowe: and I went to my friends and family, and I said, I'm going to be a full time, entrepreneur. What should I do? What do you think I should do, and they were so helpful, and they said, Well, you you were so good at what you did at corporate, and you grew that business so well.

14
00:03:35.670 --> 00:03:37.370
Kimberly Crowe: Why don't you do that.

15
00:03:37.620 --> 00:04:01.470
Kimberly Crowe: you know. Just hang a shingle and do do that business by yourself. That's a great idea. So I opened my own business. I knew how to hire people, how to write contracts. I knew where to find clients and customers. I knew how to deliver products. It was very, very quick that I was up and running, and my goal was to get to a million dollars in revenue. I think that's a lot of people's goal when they start to be an entrepreneur.

16
00:04:01.650 --> 00:04:14.860
Kimberly Crowe: and lucky for me, I actually hit it at 18 months in, and that's very rare. Sometimes it takes 3 years, 4 years, 10 years before you actually get there. But when I got there I was really really unhappy.

17
00:04:15.300 --> 00:04:27.970
Kimberly Crowe: and I couldn't figure out why. I mean, I achieved this huge milestone. But I was very. I was like in crisis. Have you felt that way like you? You achieve this major goal, and it's like post goal, depression, like.

18
00:04:27.970 --> 00:04:28.450
Lindsay Ford: Yeah, and.

19
00:04:28.450 --> 00:04:33.239
Kimberly Crowe: Build this, and it's like not what I thought. It wasn't the answer to everything that I thought it was going to be.

20
00:04:33.500 --> 00:04:55.760
Kimberly Crowe: So I went into a little bit of a spiral, and I actually stopped going to work for about 3 or 4 days, and I decided to get out in nature, and I climbed a mountain, thinking that maybe the answer would be at the top of the mountain, and it wasn't. And so I came back down, and and I actually came to my front door, and my son met me at my front door. And now he was 15 and a half.

21
00:04:55.820 --> 00:05:19.100
Kimberly Crowe: and he said, Mom, I have a problem. And I thought, great somebody else's problem to focus on for a change. If you're a mom, or if you've been a parent, and you might be like, yes, that feels good like, I know I could solve problems for my kids or my husband or my you know, partner, or whatever, but like my problems are just insurmountable. So I said, What's the problem, sweetie? And he said, Well, I'm 15 and a half.

22
00:05:19.400 --> 00:05:25.429
Kimberly Crowe: and I'm too young to get a summer job this summer, and I'm too old to go back to summer camp.

23
00:05:25.670 --> 00:05:27.390
Kimberly Crowe: So what should I do?

24
00:05:27.910 --> 00:05:29.290
Kimberly Crowe: And I said, well.

25
00:05:29.420 --> 00:05:34.070
Kimberly Crowe: why don't we start a business doing what you love doing just for fun?

26
00:05:34.400 --> 00:05:51.229
Kimberly Crowe: And I thought that would be a great thing for us to do as a team he was totally behind it. I thought it would look great on a college application for him to have like I started a business right. So together we came up with this idea of like what would be fun for him to do just out of pure joy.

27
00:05:51.230 --> 00:06:08.069
Kimberly Crowe: And he loved reading books to kids at libraries. He loved being on stage. He loved singing. He was a good singer. He loved doing improv with the school, and we sort of. Put that all together and put it into Google. And out came this idea of why don't you be an audio book, Narrator?

28
00:06:08.550 --> 00:06:18.470
Kimberly Crowe: And his eyes got really big, and he's like, Can we do that? And I thought, Well, I guess so. So we ordered some stuff on Amazon, and he assembled the the

29
00:06:18.780 --> 00:06:46.810
Kimberly Crowe: the whole studio in our coat closet, took out my vacuum. I couldn't find it for 3 weeks, and just put up a whole studio in that little coat closet, and we started auditioning for audio books, and we did that for like a couple of weeks, and then we got a few, and then we got so much business that we couldn't handle it all, and we were narrating audio books as fast as we could, and we were getting them uploaded and running through those struggles of a new business and everything. But we were having a ball.

30
00:06:46.850 --> 00:07:00.899
Kimberly Crowe: and eventually we did have too much business, so we thought we could teach a class to other people on how to become an audio book Narrator, and a voiceover artist. So we taught a class at a local adult school, and we were having so much fun. And I thought.

31
00:07:00.960 --> 00:07:14.420
Kimberly Crowe: this, this is what it's all about. It's all about the joy behind it like. That's why we were successful is because we were having so much fun. And I thought, I'm never going to do another job just because I'm good at it.

32
00:07:14.620 --> 00:07:35.589
Kimberly Crowe: We all have things that we're good at, that we don't want to do anymore. I mean, think about the times your parents told you you were good at piano lessons, and then they made you do it until you hated piano or whatever it was right. And then you just stopped loving it. And I think we're really meant to do the things that we love. I think that's the sign from the universe. This is what you're here to do. So let's do more of that.

33
00:07:36.340 --> 00:07:52.810
Lindsay Ford: Yeah, there's so many pieces of that story I can relate to just when you said like, when you're climbing the corporate ladder. And you realized it wasn't a ladder you never wanted to be on. I completely resonate with that. Just sort of blindly went through my twenties like that. I'm just

34
00:07:53.300 --> 00:07:58.569
Lindsay Ford: next step. This is the step up. And then when I got to the top of that ladder.

35
00:07:58.810 --> 00:08:07.419
Lindsay Ford: it was like, Yeah, that depression that, like you hit your goal hangover, and you're just like what? What now? And just like this.

36
00:08:07.650 --> 00:08:08.320
Lindsay Ford: this

37
00:08:09.290 --> 00:08:11.120
Lindsay Ford: empty feeling, and

38
00:08:11.650 --> 00:08:18.044
Lindsay Ford: think we are meant to. We're meant to have goals. We're meant to strive for something. But but

39
00:08:18.710 --> 00:08:34.649
Lindsay Ford: yeah, making sure it is exactly. Not even exactly what you want. It is what you want to do is so so important. And then I can also really resonate with those golden handcuffs like, when you're making a really good salary, it becomes really hard

40
00:08:34.830 --> 00:08:44.149
Lindsay Ford: to walk away from that, from many perspectives from us. Like financial security, safety, perspective, but also just like from an ego perspective.

41
00:08:44.150 --> 00:08:54.610
Kimberly Crowe: Like. Who am I? If I'm not this right? And all of my friends and all my family so proud of me for being this. And what if I'm not this anymore? It's it was really scary.

42
00:08:55.140 --> 00:09:10.299
Lindsay Ford: Yeah. And for you to say, like, when you were jumping into the entrepreneurship world, and you had the support of your I don't know if it was family and friends where you were trying to. They were trying to help you figure out what to do. I think that's even

43
00:09:10.380 --> 00:09:26.839
Lindsay Ford: rare, or that was not my experience. It wasn't that people were unsupportive, but they were afraid for me. They were afraid when I was walking away from the security. So did you have any of that stuff come up to you? That wasn't that not only just inside of you, but from those external people like, do people think you were like off your rocker a little bit.

44
00:09:27.430 --> 00:09:52.140
Kimberly Crowe: Well, yes, I mean my husband at the time was not supportive of me leaving a 6 figure income, and we are divorced now. But we're very good friends, but that was part of it. I mean, there were a lot of arguments and frustrations with that like, I don't want to do this anymore. And you know, in in a way that he could be supportive, he was like, well, you don't have to do that. Let's find you another job like, let's let's apply to other before you quit. And that's part of why I didn't quit right away

45
00:09:52.140 --> 00:09:59.979
Kimberly Crowe: before you quit. Let's find you another company to work for doing the same thing. And I it never really occurred to me to to

46
00:10:00.110 --> 00:10:14.120
Kimberly Crowe: figure out how I could work for another company and do something else right? I was too busy trying to do that at my current company like I wanted to do anything else like, I just don't want to do this anymore. And I then I started a business doing exactly that.

47
00:10:14.150 --> 00:10:21.309
Kimberly Crowe: And that was ridiculous like. Then. Then I created what I call a golden jail cell, because now I had

48
00:10:21.530 --> 00:10:50.139
Kimberly Crowe: employees, I had contracts. I had agreements that I needed to fulfill on, and I couldn't just quit because it was me. That was the company, and that's really really hard. But there is a very famous quote out there for the people in your audience that are entrepreneurs or breaking free toward entrepreneurship. Howard Thurman was a mentor to Martin Luther King, Jr. Who many of your audience may know.

49
00:10:50.340 --> 00:10:52.070
Kimberly Crowe: Howard Thurman said.

50
00:10:52.792 --> 00:10:58.600
Kimberly Crowe: If you're asking what to do. Ask not this is his quote. Ask not what the world needs.

51
00:10:59.000 --> 00:11:00.780
Kimberly Crowe: ask what lights you up?

52
00:11:00.940 --> 00:11:05.149
Kimberly Crowe: Because what the world needs are more people that are lit up.

53
00:11:06.520 --> 00:11:20.339
Kimberly Crowe: and I thought, Oh, my gosh! Like that is my new motto. Right like that is, it's so powerful to be like, yes, if I'm lit up because I'm doing what I love doing. What I think is fun. What I think is full of joy. If I'm just enjoying myself.

54
00:11:20.340 --> 00:11:37.650
Kimberly Crowe: that I'm going to attract the right kinds of people to me who need that. And if I had never broken free of that job, sure I could have continued to work there for many years unhappy, and maybe I would have been fired because people who are unhappy don't often get to keep their jobs for very long right?

55
00:11:38.001 --> 00:11:41.160
Kimberly Crowe: And when you what you could have done that.

56
00:11:41.160 --> 00:11:57.170
Kimberly Crowe: But then all the people that I've helped since then wouldn't have gotten the help they needed all of the people that I've impacted their lives or contributed to their lives in some way wouldn't have had what they needed in order to get to the next level, and I wouldn't have had all of this joy doing it.

57
00:11:57.170 --> 00:12:14.890
Kimberly Crowe: So I think that the universe just does give you that sign. If you're truly unhappy, then I'm not telling you all to quit your job. But if you're truly unhappy for an extended period of time, you need to take a deep look at that and find out what you need to do to be happy.

58
00:12:14.890 --> 00:12:30.409
Kimberly Crowe: And sometimes it's at your current job. Sometimes it's at an entrepreneurship on the side. Sometimes it's just what you do with your vacation time, and sometimes it's what you do with your family when you're not at work, but sometimes it it might need to be. Let's try something new.

59
00:12:32.730 --> 00:12:50.320
Lindsay Ford: Yeah. And that that quote just about yeah, when you're lit up, you're lighting the way for other people. And there's this ripple effect. And one of the things that I see so many people being afraid of. And I have wrestled with this. It's to continue, I think all of us continue, you know, to wrestle with. This is like

60
00:12:50.510 --> 00:13:01.099
Lindsay Ford: being yourself fully and showing up as yourself fully in. And that comes in various forms and various like. You're always evolving. And but

61
00:13:01.190 --> 00:13:19.849
Lindsay Ford: when we censor ourselves, when we play small, when we hide in the background, when we're, you know, only sharing half truths or afraid work because we're afraid to share our full truths, or to do the things that we love just for the sake of like loving it rather than you know.

62
00:13:19.980 --> 00:13:36.220
Lindsay Ford: worrying about logic and reason, like when we're hiding ourselves, we're not. We're dimming our light, and we're not showing others what's possible. But when we're really able to step into our authentic selves and be that light for others, it gives them permission to

63
00:13:36.460 --> 00:13:49.529
Lindsay Ford: be themselves. It gives them permission to follow that light inside of them. And I do. I do agree. Like, you know, we just we're going to just light up the world, 1 1 person at a time that's that gets to be the fun of it.

64
00:13:50.210 --> 00:13:51.420
Kimberly Crowe: Lindsay. That's beautiful!

65
00:13:51.940 --> 00:13:58.000
Lindsay Ford: Yeah, thank you. I am curious. You said you were happy at that job for 15 years.

66
00:13:58.480 --> 00:13:58.740
Kimberly Crowe: Yeah.

67
00:13:59.000 --> 00:14:00.530
Lindsay Ford: And then the last 2.

68
00:14:00.830 --> 00:14:09.800
Lindsay Ford: I'm curious to know if it was when you got to the top that you started being a little bit more miserable like. What changed in those last 2 years for you.

69
00:14:10.370 --> 00:14:26.679
Kimberly Crowe: Yeah, I think it was just. It was a. It's a combination of things. If it was one thing and the switch had turned on. Maybe I would have noticed faster. But I think it was a combination of things like, I think when you get to that, it's it's that post cold depression. Right? You get to that level. And you're like.

70
00:14:26.710 --> 00:14:38.250
Kimberly Crowe: okay, this is where I'm supposed to be like, this is the achievement. And now I'm a rock star. And now I just get to celebrate, and it just didn't feel that way right. It felt like, oh, this is kind of this is less

71
00:14:38.520 --> 00:14:59.069
Kimberly Crowe: joyful than I thought it was going to be, and there was. Now you're reporting to somebody different, and your job duties are are different. Part of part of my job was to to like motivate folks that were on my team, and and that can be joyful at in some level. But parts of it are just like.

72
00:14:59.170 --> 00:15:06.760
Kimberly Crowe: no, we want you to just yell at these people because they're not doing enough and and make these people like work faster. And I thought.

73
00:15:06.820 --> 00:15:35.999
Kimberly Crowe: this isn't like that's not who I want to show up as in the world. And that's not actually even how I got there, right. How I got there was motivating by positive attitude and and applauding people to success, and pointing out people that were doing well and making a positive competition. You know what like big celebrations and treats over the positive reinforcement. And that's sort of how I got there and it. And it's not that I'd never fired anybody. Of course I did. You know that wasn't working appropriately, or doing the right

74
00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:38.290
Kimberly Crowe: the right things, or it wasn't a right fit for the job.

75
00:15:38.300 --> 00:16:04.099
Kimberly Crowe: But my whole mantra was like, let's let's create a fun environment. And once you got to this other level, it was sort of like, no, now we have other rules. And then and then things changed to the company, and my boss changed and my my, the direction changed. And it's it's sort of like, okay, well, now, we're just playing politics right? And and I think that's what sort of demoted motivated me.

76
00:16:04.671 --> 00:16:18.809
Kimberly Crowe: My compensation was great. So it wasn't that the people I was working with were a little bit different, and I was a little bit more removed from clients which I loved working with clients. So there was. It was a sort of a combination of things, and I think just sort of that.

77
00:16:18.970 --> 00:16:35.280
Kimberly Crowe: Oh, we're here now, and it's not as great as I thought it was going to be, and what else is there to climb to? So then you look at what else? There is a climb to what what's next for me, and what's next just didn't seem at all appealing, you know. Like, if those people had been there for

78
00:16:35.300 --> 00:16:51.570
Kimberly Crowe: tens of years, if not more. And when you're you're dealing with somebody that you're like. Oh, I could be here for a decade before I get to my next step. That doesn't seem so appealing, you know, when you're in your forties already, I thought just nothing about it was

79
00:16:51.650 --> 00:16:54.399
Kimberly Crowe: would light me up anymore. And I think that's

80
00:16:54.550 --> 00:17:05.019
Kimberly Crowe: that's what the struggle was, is, it wasn't an a switch like. Oh, now I have a bad boss, or I got a bad review, or something happened that, like there was no trigger, it was just sort of this

81
00:17:05.839 --> 00:17:18.459
Kimberly Crowe: frog in a boiling pot. Have you heard that phrase like they? You gradually turn up the heat, and they stay in there, and they never jump out until they die. It's a terrible analogy, but I think that's kind of what it was, and luckily I jumped out.

82
00:17:19.060 --> 00:17:28.139
Lindsay Ford: Well, and that was, I mean, that's actually perfect segue to my next question, because you just sort of mentioned that like, you know, the risk of staying stuck

83
00:17:28.260 --> 00:17:53.389
Lindsay Ford: in an unhappy. I can't remember how you exactly worded it, but just like there's, you know, people often look at the risk of moving, or, you know, starting a business, or like moving to a different job. But people rarely assess the risk of staying exactly where they are, and I think that boiling frog in a pot is the perfect analogy I think it has to get pretty excruciating for a lot of us to

84
00:17:53.470 --> 00:17:54.550
Lindsay Ford: make

85
00:17:54.570 --> 00:17:56.949
Lindsay Ford: may be willing to make a move.

86
00:17:57.826 --> 00:17:59.320
Lindsay Ford: I'm curious.

87
00:17:59.490 --> 00:18:06.550
Lindsay Ford: I'm just curious your perspective on this particular line of thinking. If you know what would be the risk of staying.

88
00:18:06.870 --> 00:18:16.050
Lindsay Ford: I'll say miserable. But that sounds like a terrible question. But like, where's where's the the risk? You know? How is the risk? Assessment playing out in your your mind?

89
00:18:16.050 --> 00:18:39.470
Kimberly Crowe: So I have sort of an existential theory about that. Actually the risk of staying. I love how you put that I don't think I've ever heard it phrased that way, and it's so important. So thank you very much for for giving me that label to use. I'm going to borrow that in the future, because I think we talk about the status quo and how comfortable the comfort zone is, and nothing nothing evolutionary comes from the comfort zone.

90
00:18:39.490 --> 00:18:46.019
Kimberly Crowe: If you're always doing what somebody has always done, then there is no forward movement for

91
00:18:46.040 --> 00:18:47.690
Kimberly Crowe: humankind.

92
00:18:47.920 --> 00:19:06.560
Kimberly Crowe: and I think that's really the risk, right? That we are not as humankind, evolving that we may be doing something somebody else has done, and learning from them. But are we really evolving? Are we changing? Are we growing? Are we developing? Are we expanding as our own human being which is actually helping the universe expand as well?

93
00:19:06.560 --> 00:19:31.349
Kimberly Crowe: And if I just follow in the footsteps of let's just pick somebody like Tony Robbins, and I just do what Tony Robbins did step by step, and I just do the same things. Eventually I'll have to step out because I'm not Tony Robbins. I'll have to step out with my own personality or my own way of thinking, or my own way of doing things, and in corporate you can sort of do that. But they do have a tendency to try to put you back in that box right? We want you to do it our way. This is the company way.

94
00:19:31.350 --> 00:19:38.609
Kimberly Crowe: This is how we do things, and there's a little less room there, and my my viewpoint is that

95
00:19:39.080 --> 00:19:45.869
Kimberly Crowe: our universe, since it's an expansive universe, is going to make it more and more uncomfortable for you to do that

96
00:19:46.020 --> 00:19:49.749
Kimberly Crowe: until you finally decide that you've got to leave.

97
00:19:49.810 --> 00:20:00.339
Kimberly Crowe: and that's whether you're in a bad relationship, whether you are not doing well at work, whether you're you know you're having struggles with your teenagers.

98
00:20:00.688 --> 00:20:09.620
Kimberly Crowe: Whether you're having struggles with money, whether you're having struggles with your own weight and your physical health, you will get to a point where you're like enough.

99
00:20:09.660 --> 00:20:21.950
Kimberly Crowe: I cannot do it this way anymore. And that's the universe making it more and more and more uncomfortable for us until we decide we're going to change. That's my opinion.

100
00:20:22.190 --> 00:20:30.070
Lindsay Ford: No, I love that. I'm of the same opinion, like we're here to evolve as humanity, and we're here to grow. And that

101
00:20:30.180 --> 00:20:34.550
Lindsay Ford: starts with at the individual level like you are here to.

102
00:20:34.900 --> 00:20:52.740
Lindsay Ford: Well, you're here to break free from all of those like shackles that are like holding you down and holding you back from being your your full self, and you know when you are, you know, in that comfort zone, in that I I mean, life is just not meant to be comfortable, like I mean

103
00:20:53.580 --> 00:21:03.195
Lindsay Ford: comfortable from like a joy perspective, but not just like stagnant. And I think that's where maybe the the con say confusion, or the the

104
00:21:03.740 --> 00:21:07.369
Lindsay Ford: like, where we get caught up is like we feel like it should be

105
00:21:07.900 --> 00:21:09.060
Lindsay Ford: either

106
00:21:10.007 --> 00:21:29.690
Lindsay Ford: like. Like something's just going to be handed to us, and it's going to be easy, not recognizing that you know the the challenges that come up in life, or when we push ourselves out of our comfort zone. That's how we evolve as a person. That's what forces us to really confront our fears or confront the things that are holding us back.

107
00:21:29.700 --> 00:21:36.360
Lindsay Ford: And that is how we start. The evolution and fear is a part of the process, and discomfort is part of the process.

108
00:21:36.360 --> 00:21:36.760
Kimberly Crowe: No.

109
00:21:36.760 --> 00:21:39.349
Lindsay Ford: And we can't. We can't bypass

110
00:21:39.880 --> 00:21:42.469
Lindsay Ford: those those parts of the process.

111
00:21:42.660 --> 00:22:03.578
Kimberly Crowe: Yes, and I think the more that we try to bypass it, the more that we try to say. Well, I can push through this, and I can like I can stand this, and I know it's bad now, but is, it's like, I'll just. I'll just keep going in the same comfort, zone status quo. I think that it just becomes more and more and more uncomfortable until we're willing to jump out of that pot.

112
00:22:03.850 --> 00:22:17.549
Kimberly Crowe: Now that's not to say that that everybody has to grow and change if they're happy where they are. As a matter of fact, I was thinking as you were we were talking about. When I lived in Atlanta

113
00:22:17.550 --> 00:22:42.420
Kimberly Crowe: I used to go to this grocery store called Publix, and they had many, many aisles, as many grocery stores do. And there was this one really sweet, buxom, blonde lady, and she was a chatter, and she was so positive. And she would come at like, Yeah, I went to her like a line every time. I don't care if there were 20 people in that line. I would go to that line every time, because I was like she loves her job like she loves talking to people, and she

114
00:22:42.420 --> 00:23:06.120
Kimberly Crowe: scans the stuff, and she greets people, and she's always smiling. She's always having a good time. And she was, and you go to anybody else's line, and they're doing their job, you know they're processing, but they don't love it. So if you love your job, and you're full of that much energy, and it gives you joy and happiness every day. Keep doing it. So I actually have an acronym around this, and it's called, Get on the road to joy. ROAD. Is an acronym road.

115
00:23:06.230 --> 00:23:09.090
Kimberly Crowe: and the 1st R. The R. Stands for

116
00:23:09.170 --> 00:23:19.830
Kimberly Crowe: relish. If you relish it, if you're like. I love this, it lights me up. I'm so happy to do this. Then keep doing it by all means just keep doing the things that you relish doing.

117
00:23:19.830 --> 00:23:43.730
Kimberly Crowe: and if you're an entrepreneur, if you don't love doing it, then consider putting it in one of the other 3 buckets. So R is relish, and then you have O for outsource, meaning I'm going to outsource. I'm going to hand this off to somebody else. I'm going to hire a Va. Or I'm going to joint venture with a partner, and they're going to do this part, or I'm going to have my kids do this part for me, or whatever it is, you know, like a neighborhood kid or something to do it.

118
00:23:43.770 --> 00:24:07.170
Kimberly Crowe: And then a is automate. So if you have emails that need to be sent out, or if you have, if you can use spreadsheets to to put things together and figure out what to do next. If you can, you know, do any sort of automation to the work that you do. If you don't love it, then figure out how to automate it, and if you can't, if you don't love it, can't outsource it, and you can't automate it. Think about D, which is delete?

119
00:24:07.170 --> 00:24:14.760
Kimberly Crowe: Can you delete it from your job description altogether? Can you get it off your plate in some way, like maybe it just doesn't need to be done.

120
00:24:14.830 --> 00:24:39.150
Kimberly Crowe: I think there's a funny thing in one of the sitcoms that says, Do I have those Tsp reports? Can you get me those Tsp reports? And nobody really knows what the Tsp reports are, or what they're for, or whatever. But maybe you could just stop doing the Tsp reports right? You really need to keep doing that. Is anybody really paying attention. And I think that's analogous for entrepreneurs like, if you're continuing to do something that you don't want to do anymore. Like.

121
00:24:39.290 --> 00:24:50.999
Kimberly Crowe: if you're posting every week on Instagram and you hate it, and it's not generating any revenue or new leads or new anything, maybe just stop doing it for a while. Try something else, you know.

122
00:24:51.130 --> 00:24:55.770
Kimberly Crowe: Anyway, that's just my theory, and I think it. I think it can be very helpful for folks.

123
00:24:56.080 --> 00:25:08.000
Lindsay Ford: No, I I love that, and especially that delete idea, because you're right. So many of us as entrepreneurs. You feel like we should be doing something, or we're trying to, you know, follow the proven path that everyone else is doing.

124
00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:08.350
Kimberly Crowe: Sure.

125
00:25:08.350 --> 00:25:14.520
Lindsay Ford: It's not like how we want to be showing up in the world. It doesn't align with our our joy.

126
00:25:14.770 --> 00:25:19.615
Lindsay Ford: I would love to go back to that business that you started with your son where you

127
00:25:20.010 --> 00:25:26.999
Lindsay Ford: It sounded like you started it. You followed it because it was pure joy, but it also sounded like there was really no attachment to any outcome.

128
00:25:27.470 --> 00:25:30.170
Lindsay Ford: In the beginning, at least. So

129
00:25:30.210 --> 00:25:41.479
Lindsay Ford: how did that experience with him? I guess further shift and shape shape what you ended up doing, or how did how did that continue to help you evolve.

130
00:25:42.390 --> 00:25:43.754
Kimberly Crowe: Well, I think.

131
00:25:45.070 --> 00:25:51.719
Kimberly Crowe: I think that. Yes, it's great to be able to be detached from the outcome. It's hard to do.

132
00:25:52.150 --> 00:26:15.430
Kimberly Crowe: I think we all want to be successful and worse. We have people in our friends and family that are checking up on us like, if this isn't successful, maybe you should go back and get a real job. Maybe you should, you know. Maybe like, is this, does this have health insurance like, how are you going to manage if this doesn't work out. So not only are we trying to prove it to ourselves, but we're trying to prove it to other people, so that whole outcome, and being detached from it is so hard to do

133
00:26:15.490 --> 00:26:26.040
Kimberly Crowe: now. I was fortunate because I did have this business sort of running a little bit limping along when I left, like limping along without me. And so I could start this other business with my son on the side.

134
00:26:26.300 --> 00:26:48.830
Kimberly Crowe: and I think when we have this side business, and it's a little bit fun, or it gives us an idea that we can create other things from it, being detached from the outcome really means that maybe if they're not ready to buy, it's not you that they're not wanting to buy. It's the product, and it may not even be that they don't want to buy it. It may be not the right time for them to buy it

135
00:26:48.830 --> 00:27:09.590
Kimberly Crowe: so they could. I've often had people say to me now like, Oh, I would love to come to that event, but I can't come because I have a family gathering. When's your next one, right or whatever. And if all I had up was a website that counted how many people signed up for it. I wouldn't know if people really liked it or not. So I think really doing your market research to find out what

136
00:27:09.590 --> 00:27:18.709
Kimberly Crowe: what your customers really want, and and being detached from that outcome of the they bought it, or they didn't they want it, or they don't, and finding out like, what?

137
00:27:18.710 --> 00:27:44.660
Kimberly Crowe: What do they want? And would that be something that I would enjoy doing? Or if it's not, then what else might I offer? What other things? And being able to be flexible in the moment is so important for entrepreneurs to be able to shift a little bit. Not your entire thing. Not like oh, I'm gonna throw that away, baby with the bathwater kind of thing, but to be able to shift and be dynamic in your delivery, I think, is important. Did that answer your question? I don't think it did.

138
00:27:45.321 --> 00:27:48.128
Lindsay Ford: I don't remember, but I have a new thought.

139
00:27:49.014 --> 00:27:54.480
Lindsay Ford: The with the attachment to outcome, I think you know, being able to separate our

140
00:27:54.560 --> 00:27:56.980
Lindsay Ford: self-worth from an outcome.

141
00:27:56.980 --> 00:27:57.570
Kimberly Crowe: Oh, yeah.

142
00:27:57.570 --> 00:28:18.550
Lindsay Ford: Really key. And then also with the outcome, what I have found just in my own journey. It's when I'm like super attached to an outcome. And it's like it's like this sliding scale, like I feel like the more attached to an outcome I am, the less joy I'm experiencing.

143
00:28:18.550 --> 00:28:18.910
Kimberly Crowe: Yeah.

144
00:28:18.910 --> 00:28:24.240
Lindsay Ford: And and or and vice versa. So I'm wondering like, do you like? What are your thoughts on that.

145
00:28:24.850 --> 00:28:49.029
Kimberly Crowe: Yes, my thoughts are. Yes, I agree with you. I think the more attached we are to the outcome, the more our happiness is connected to it, and I'm a big fan of law, of attraction, and they teach, you know. We get to decide to be happy, no matter what the circumstances are out there right? So if it's raining, and we were planning to do a picnic this this Sunday, you know we could be disappointed, but it's not going to wreck our world right?

146
00:28:49.339 --> 00:29:04.510
Kimberly Crowe: And and yes, we are attached to that, and disappointed, but we can. We can move on. But when our business is not successful. It does feel like an extension of ourselves. They don't want my business, but they also don't want me. They don't want what I created.

147
00:29:04.510 --> 00:29:19.279
Kimberly Crowe: and I know that artists go through this so painfully. My mom's an artist, and she'll create some beautiful beautiful artwork, and even if she gets praise, you know, this is so beautiful, and then she goes to a show, and none of it sells that day. It's just

148
00:29:19.280 --> 00:29:47.149
Kimberly Crowe: brutal, you know, like it's so hard, because it's us that we're selling in so many ways, but being detached from it and saying, I give, I create this art for the joy of creating the art. And if people buy that great. But if people don't also great, because I'm doing it for the joy of creating it, and I think that's what's given her peace over the years, and it can give us peace as well, although sometimes not having the income adds its own little stressor as well.

149
00:29:47.280 --> 00:29:49.170
Kimberly Crowe: but I think

150
00:29:49.190 --> 00:29:58.929
Kimberly Crowe: like being able to not be attached to the outcome, and being in constant, the the constant ability to revise right. This is all one big test kitchen

151
00:29:58.930 --> 00:30:23.809
Kimberly Crowe: like, it's just we're just testing things we're just testing. And if it doesn't work, we're going to tweak. And then we're going to test. And then we're going to tweak, and then we're going to test. And then we're going to tweak. So maybe we make an offer for a course that we're teaching, and nobody buys it. So we go back to the people who clicked on it. And we say, I would have loved to have you in this program. I understand that you didn't buy, not a problem. I'm just curious what attracted to you and what made you make that decision not to buy.

152
00:30:24.270 --> 00:30:48.690
Kimberly Crowe: and you can learn from that. If we're not afraid to ask those people why they didn't buy, why we got that rejection because the rejection wasn't of us. It was of the product because they wanted something. They just didn't want that, or they didn't want that at that price, or they didn't want that at that time, or they didn't want, they thought it would have something that wasn't in there. And so you just go and

153
00:30:48.690 --> 00:30:57.090
Kimberly Crowe: get feedback and find out what you need to tweak and then test again, and then tweak again, and then test again and tweak again. And I think that's the secret sauce.

154
00:30:57.760 --> 00:31:03.559
Lindsay Ford: Yeah, I love that. You mentioned this idea of experimenting because it does get to become

155
00:31:03.570 --> 00:31:32.440
Lindsay Ford: like a fun game. In a sense, it's not really fun at some point, but it but if you look at it like with that curiosity, and with that willingness to pivot and experiment, not even just in business, but in life you kind of recognize that there's no decisions that are ever fixed and permanent. And you kind of you understand that you get to evolve over time. And you're just yeah. All you're doing is just like

156
00:31:32.580 --> 00:31:37.709
Lindsay Ford: asking questions, asking yourself questions, asking other questions. And you're just figuring it out.

157
00:31:37.740 --> 00:31:44.320
Lindsay Ford: and life just gets to be this beautiful journey of of figuring things out. I know.

158
00:31:44.690 --> 00:32:03.099
Lindsay Ford: you know, when I was a couple of years ago, when I was walking away from my marriage, walking away from my home and deciding to travel full time, I'll say full time, but you know, for 5 months at that at that point, and people thought I was absolutely crazy. And but I was like.

159
00:32:03.220 --> 00:32:27.280
Lindsay Ford: you know, I can go down this path, and you know, if I make it like a few weeks in, I can change my mind and come back and do something different, like I could change my mind at any time, and same with like. When I jumped into the entrepreneurship world like I could change my mind at any time like there is always the option to like, go find a job somewhere. So I just love. I love that you brought that that idea of experimenting.

160
00:32:27.650 --> 00:32:44.189
Kimberly Crowe: I didn't realize I didn't realize that you traveled full time as well. I did. Our lives are very parallel. In 2020, when the when Covid was hit I left my. I was divorced. I left the house that I'd been in for 20 years.

161
00:32:44.190 --> 00:33:09.170
Kimberly Crowe: and I started to travel full time my youngest son went off to college, and I thought, Okay, we're going to rent out the house, got rid of all the furniture, got rid of everything left with 2 suitcases and my car and I just started traveling full time, and my dad was like, Are you sleeping in your car? And I'm like. No, I'm at the Marriott. I'm in an Airbnb. I'm on a cruise ship like I'm at a resort in Mexico, and it was I mean traveling full time is a lot of fun, but there's a

162
00:33:09.170 --> 00:33:16.320
Kimberly Crowe: lot of risk to it as well. So I love that you did that. That's congratulations. I know very few people who've been able to do that.

163
00:33:16.570 --> 00:33:20.016
Lindsay Ford: Well, it does. You know there's there's some risks to it.

164
00:33:20.330 --> 00:33:20.720
Kimberly Crowe: Work.

165
00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:42.490
Lindsay Ford: Like there's so much discomfort as well like it does look like you're having this fun adventure, and you are having this fun adventure, but it gets to be like it's back to that. What we were just talking about about, like stretching yourself out of your comfort zone, like there's so much about travel that is uncomfortable. It's a fun process. How long did you travel for.

166
00:33:42.660 --> 00:34:11.940
Kimberly Crowe: I still travel full time. Right now I'm actually dialing in from Spain. So it's been 4 and a half years, and it will probably be. It will probably be wrapped up in 2025. I feel like it's coming to a close. I've been saying that for about 3 months, so I think it probably is coming to a close. My daughter lives in Florida. My son lives in San Diego. My parents live in La. They're fortunately still alive and doing well. So I think it's time for me to find a place in and around those areas.

167
00:34:12.189 --> 00:34:35.099
Kimberly Crowe: And I do have some rental properties. So I might just Airbnb, or something like that. But I think that'll I think that's coming next on in 2025 is I'll stop doing that. But it was. It was fun for for many years I thought it would be about 6 months. So it's funny that yours was 5. I thought I would do it for 6 months and then see what happened. And it turned out to be 4 and a half years. So it's been. It's been a joy.

168
00:34:35.719 --> 00:34:55.319
Lindsay Ford: Well, my initial my initial trip was 5 months, but I'm 2 years later, and still, you know, quote unquote, homeless. So still wandering a little bit, but it gets to be again. It's just like pushing you out of your comfort zone and knowing that, like you're just, you're experimenting with life, and just.

169
00:34:55.320 --> 00:34:56.050
Kimberly Crowe: Exactly.

170
00:34:56.050 --> 00:35:11.710
Lindsay Ford: Ways different ways. So how did you? How did you shift into this this speaking business? Because you tell us what you do with related to Speaker like speaking now, because I think so many people have

171
00:35:11.710 --> 00:35:33.469
Lindsay Ford: fears of speaking. I mean, if people do have fears of speaking, and I remember being in grade 9. So I would have been like 14 years old, and my English teacher was like, you need to learn how to do presentations, because, you know, you might end up in a job that involves public speaking. I'm like, never, never in my life will I do a job that involves public speaking.

172
00:35:33.470 --> 00:35:45.190
Lindsay Ford: and then fast forward, you know, not even a decade later, into my 1st career, and like there was a lot of public speaking in my 1st career, and then that's been one of the things that I now love. So how did you get into speaking.

173
00:35:45.500 --> 00:36:09.250
Kimberly Crowe: Well, you gave the great example. The best way to get good at public speaking is to publicly speak. That's it, that's all you have to do, and everybody can do it, and it is one of the greatest fears. There's an old joke that says that if there's somebody giving a eulogy that they would rather be in the casket than giving the eulogy. It's a fear worse than death, right? And I think that

174
00:36:09.250 --> 00:36:21.099
Kimberly Crowe: that the only way to to solve, that is, by exposure. Exposure. Therapy is a real thing, and being able to do it over and over again, is is a really powerful help to that.

175
00:36:21.770 --> 00:36:43.029
Kimberly Crowe: I really enjoyed it. Early on. I was one of those people where they were like Kimberly. You need to sit down and be quiet, and and I had the lead in the school play very young, and I loved being on stage and pay attention to me now, like I did love that. So it's harder for me to have people say, well, I'm terrified of public speaking. How do I? How do I get there? You know.

176
00:36:43.410 --> 00:37:11.920
Kimberly Crowe: and what I can say is that that nerves. The feeling of nervousness is the same as the feeling of excitement in your brain. Chemically, in your body it is the exact same feeling. So if you say I'm so nervous to get on stage, you will feel your stomach doing flips and your breathing changes, and your your throat constricts and your ears are ringing, and your head is spinning, and you can feel those real, honest feelings of nerves.

177
00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:17.140
Kimberly Crowe: But if you say, instead of. I'm nervous to get on stage. You say I'm excited to get on stage.

178
00:37:17.140 --> 00:37:42.089
Kimberly Crowe: Then, if you can shift that in your mind, the same feelings are true, your stomach is doing flip-flops because you're excited to get on the roller coaster. You're breathing faster because you're excited to get on the roller coaster. Your throat might be closing up because you're excited to get on the roller coaster your ears are bringing, or your head is spinning because you're excited to get on the roller coaster, and the same feeling, chemically is excitement as nerves. So the next time you're about to grab the mic, tell yourself I'm excited

179
00:37:42.090 --> 00:38:05.369
Kimberly Crowe: to be here. I'm excited to get on the stage, and that can help with those nerves. And and I've heard the story picture people in their underwear, and I just don't think that's helpful at all. I think that's an old joke, but I don't. I don't really think that it's very helpful practicing in front of the mirror. I don't think that helps because you're not getting that same reaction of the crowd. My favorite way to get good at public speaking is this

180
00:38:05.400 --> 00:38:13.000
Kimberly Crowe: doing a podcast interview, talking with another amazing human being like yourself, and just having a conversation.

181
00:38:13.070 --> 00:38:35.499
Kimberly Crowe: And that helps you clear mind about what you want to speak about, and the more you speak about it, one on one, the more you're able to justify, to figure out what you want to speak about, and the more confident you become at your ability to share on that particular topic. And so then you get much better at it. So that's my favorite way to get good at public speaking. How did I do it?

182
00:38:35.570 --> 00:38:55.359
Kimberly Crowe: Well, once I was teaching classes, I was like, this is great like, why wouldn't we want to do this. So we taught at the adult school, and that was fun. And then I taught online. And that was fun. And then I joined a program to on how to create online courses. And my 1st course was going to be how to grow a business and scale it to the point where you can sell it.

183
00:38:55.360 --> 00:39:07.169
Kimberly Crowe: That's what I had done many times, and my mentor, not boss, my mentor, said. Well, if you know how to do that, all these entrepreneurs need to learn how to scale a business and sell it. You should teach that.

184
00:39:07.170 --> 00:39:18.270
Kimberly Crowe: And so I created a course on that, and it did not sell at all like nobody would buy it, and the funny thing was that my audience was like coaches.

185
00:39:18.270 --> 00:39:39.199
Kimberly Crowe: and so the coaches wanted to coach. They didn't want to sell, that they weren't even thinking about selling their business. They didn't think about how to scale. They just wanted to do it right, or they were healers, and they just wanted to do it. They didn't want to think about like how to how to do P. And l's and and position your company for sale and find angel investors like they didn't want to do any of that. So it was a flop like a total flop.

186
00:39:39.440 --> 00:39:48.859
Kimberly Crowe: and as I started digging into it, I realized that all these coaches and all these healers they loved doing what they were doing, but they didn't want to sell.

187
00:39:49.140 --> 00:39:54.250
Kimberly Crowe: They didn't want to like, get out there and do the hard sale. They didn't want to do sales calls, they didn't. Wanna?

188
00:39:54.360 --> 00:39:56.470
Kimberly Crowe: They just wanted to deliver.

189
00:39:56.680 --> 00:40:19.099
Kimberly Crowe: and I'd been working in a business for many years where I had to get on stage and sell. I had to sell to clients. I had to have meetings and sell lots, and one of my most favorite ways to sell is to get on a stage. And I thought, I can teach this. This I can teach. So now I give coaches, healers, authors, speakers, entrepreneurs.

190
00:40:19.100 --> 00:40:33.589
Kimberly Crowe: a stage where they can talk about their genius, about what they're good at, about what they love doing, about how they help people, and when they share that they don't feel like they're selling so much, and then they have a chance to talk about it. People get to know them.

191
00:40:33.670 --> 00:40:42.830
Kimberly Crowe: and then they can make more money by creating the opportunity to gain that visibility, because when they're not being seen, they're being overlooked.

192
00:40:42.940 --> 00:40:54.169
Kimberly Crowe: and when they're not being heard, their message isn't getting out there, and when they're not consistently getting at it out, either by ads or by speaking, then it's not going to have the contribution or the success that they want it to have.

193
00:40:54.690 --> 00:41:19.189
Lindsay Ford: Yeah, I can completely resonate with like being afraid of sales. And until I really understood that, I could just show up and have a conversation with people in various forms, and it didn't have to be anything more than that. It's like, just like a human to human connection. And then it becomes really fun, because then it's just about getting to know them and figuring out if you're a good fit, and that's it.

194
00:41:19.620 --> 00:41:38.890
Lindsay Ford: It's not. It's not this big, scary, daunting thing that I used to think it was, and so many people still think it is. I want to go back to just the public speaking piece of it because I'd love to share my experience because I was like this super shy kid.

195
00:41:38.890 --> 00:41:55.680
Lindsay Ford: And it's funny, because, you know, maybe a decade ago, when I was still working, I mentioned to my boss that you know I'm shy, and he just looked at me. He's like no Lindsay, like you're not. You're not shy, and I'm like what like it was just a label that had been given to me at a young age, and I felt.

196
00:41:55.970 --> 00:41:56.720
Kimberly Crowe: Oh, yeah.

197
00:41:56.720 --> 00:42:24.119
Lindsay Ford: Me still, part of me still had that. And he's like you're one of the most extroverted people I know. I'm like. I'm not extroverted. I just will speak my mind, and I'm comfortable getting up in front of people now. But for me it was I was one that needed to rehearse my presentation. It was a lot of presentations when I was working in that job, but but before that I actually did a course in university.

198
00:42:24.290 --> 00:42:33.140
Lindsay Ford: and part of that course was on like it was a communication course, and we had to get up and do a 5 min presentation on

199
00:42:33.350 --> 00:42:38.069
Lindsay Ford: something. We could pick it, and it was the 1st time I'd actually

200
00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:41.129
Lindsay Ford: had to do a presentation

201
00:42:41.300 --> 00:42:47.359
Lindsay Ford: on a topic of like completely my choice, because all through high school it was like, you know, this assignment.

202
00:42:48.450 --> 00:42:49.540
Kimberly Crowe: Bears.

203
00:42:49.540 --> 00:43:06.149
Lindsay Ford: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And so, like all of the topics were given. And I was trying to, you know, do something by other people what was expected to me I was trying to perform to, you know, get good marks, and in this this one it was, you know, I still wanted to do well, but it was

204
00:43:06.220 --> 00:43:10.389
Lindsay Ford: I could get up there and talk about whatever I wanted, and

205
00:43:10.620 --> 00:43:24.180
Lindsay Ford: that was it was the 1st like, and then I got like a perfect score. It was just marked at a 5. It was just like meant to be this super simple exercise, and I was like that was the that was like a big Aha moment for me, because it was like.

206
00:43:24.200 --> 00:43:40.090
Lindsay Ford: Oh, I could actually be good at this something. I thought that I was completely terrible, something I thought, that, you know I was terrified of doing, and it was just like, Oh, if it's the right topic, topic, if I know the topic.

207
00:43:40.300 --> 00:43:54.040
Lindsay Ford: And I'm having fun then like this can actually be really, really easy. And then I took that into my career. I was one that needed to rehearse. I never did it in front of the mirror, but I needed to say things out loud. You know I tried different ways.

208
00:43:54.040 --> 00:43:54.609
Kimberly Crowe: Yeah, like.

209
00:43:54.610 --> 00:44:02.679
Lindsay Ford: Like structuring presentations, and I always needed to write out a full script. I tried it with bullet points, but I found like

210
00:44:02.830 --> 00:44:23.359
Lindsay Ford: it left too much to too much ambiguity there, and I would stumble over my words. So then I got to like writing out the full script of the presentation. I'd practice it a few times, and then I would never look at my notes during the presentation, but that was for me, just like the comfort of knowing what I was talking about.

211
00:44:23.490 --> 00:44:26.460
Lindsay Ford: and in my career I was always

212
00:44:26.520 --> 00:44:39.820
Lindsay Ford: 9 times out of 10 getting up and doing controversial presentations where there was intense. QA. After. People usually didn't like what I was telling them. There was a lot of change involved. Some of it was in front of the public, some of it when it was in front

213
00:44:40.410 --> 00:44:46.959
Lindsay Ford: board meetings, and like very political. And then, when I went into my business and I was teaching on parenting. I'm like

214
00:44:47.280 --> 00:45:06.820
Lindsay Ford: I don't even know how to speak in front of a non hostile audience like I was. I'm like, Oh, I can get back to the joy of speaking. But it was uncomfortable that I'm like people are like, it was just such a weird thing. I was so used to. People like being angry with me and dealing with that sort of thing that like then to just

215
00:45:07.110 --> 00:45:36.970
Lindsay Ford: speak and have like that positive reaction was was actually an interesting shift. So that's that's been my like evolution. And now I just I can get on conversations like this and just know that it's just a conversation, and it's so fun that you, one of your recommendations, was to like, just have a conversation with somebody. Because I there's been other people that I know in like my affiliate marketing business and that direct sales type of business where they're so afraid of getting on like a Facebook live.

216
00:45:36.970 --> 00:45:45.810
Lindsay Ford: And there's been a couple. There's been a couple of them where I'm just like, Oh, I'll just get on and like I can interview you, and you can interview me, and then we get off, and they're like, Oh.

217
00:45:45.850 --> 00:45:48.379
Lindsay Ford: that was not as scary as I thought it was going to be.

218
00:45:48.380 --> 00:45:48.870
Kimberly Crowe: Right.

219
00:45:48.870 --> 00:45:55.360
Lindsay Ford: It was way easier. We just had a conversation like, I can actually do this. And yeah, just those baby steps.

220
00:45:55.710 --> 00:46:04.280
Kimberly Crowe: Thank you for doing that and putting that out there in the world, because that is really the differentiation right? That you had a teacher who supported you and said you were great at that

221
00:46:04.280 --> 00:46:28.710
Kimberly Crowe: 1st off. Thank gosh, he did that like. That's amazing that he gave you a 5. And you're like, Oh, I can do this. I'm so delighted to hear that because a lot of people get crippled in school like Oh, you tripped over your word or you had, and toastmasters, toastmasters is great for what it does, but sometimes they make so many people nervous about the Us and the ands and the ums and the so's, and I am. I've given over 5,000 talks.

222
00:46:29.534 --> 00:46:33.909
Kimberly Crowe: and I've been privileged to even speak on Tedx in Las Vegas.

223
00:46:34.560 --> 00:46:37.100
Kimberly Crowe: My best talk ever is my next one.

224
00:46:37.540 --> 00:46:39.299
Kimberly Crowe: because I can always improve.

225
00:46:39.650 --> 00:47:03.139
Kimberly Crowe: And if we just think in terms of this is never, we're never finished like, if this is all just one big test kitchen. We can always just have more fun doing it again, doing it differently next time. The things that you bring up in this conversation I'm going to use in another conversation a week from now, or 3 months from now, and it gives you more ideas. So just the active of the action of doing it is really powerful.

226
00:47:03.140 --> 00:47:11.290
Kimberly Crowe: I love that you did have the conversation, and I love that you give other people the permission to be able to enjoy public speaking, because that's

227
00:47:11.360 --> 00:47:19.310
Kimberly Crowe: that. That's really a fear that's so great for so many people, and to have you out there helping people get over that fear. That's amazing.

228
00:47:19.800 --> 00:47:38.549
Lindsay Ford: Well and public speaking. You know we think of it like being on stage. But it's really, you know, conversations like this, or even like I find if I'm at like a party or a gathering, if I'm you know, more than I don't know. 5 people look at me. I'm just like Whoa, like what is happening right now, like, there's different forms of

229
00:47:38.580 --> 00:47:52.599
Lindsay Ford: of public speaking and just being. Comp, it's really like comes back to being comfortable in your own skin, I think, and just, you know, trusting that you know, whatever comes out of your mouth is, you know, is perfect as it is.

230
00:47:52.880 --> 00:47:53.750
Lindsay Ford: so.

231
00:47:54.400 --> 00:48:10.640
Kimberly Crowe: Now I say this for everybody. I wish politicians would do it more. But politicians, obviously they have to structure everything perfectly because they're gonna get actively attacked on a regular basis. The rest of us have it easy. We're not, you know, people aren't. People didn't tune into the break free podcast

232
00:48:10.640 --> 00:48:33.140
Kimberly Crowe: to attack right. They didn't dive in here to be like Lindsay's terrible. Her guests are terrible, like they're here because they want to be supportive. They want to be that non confrontational audience. Now, they may have an opinion that differs, and that's great, too, but they're not here to attack, and most audiences are not. If you go and speak at an event like I just spoke at a Podfest.

233
00:48:33.140 --> 00:48:34.440
Kimberly Crowe: and they had. I don't know

234
00:48:34.440 --> 00:48:58.460
Kimberly Crowe: 2,000 people there or something, and I'm on the stage delivering material. And you know people afterwards they were like, How how are you able to do that? And I said, well, nobody came, hoping I would fail. They all came, hoping I had something great to share with them, and I did so great, you know, nobody was going to throw tomatoes. Nobody had to be there. They all chose to be there. They all wanted to learn something, and my top

235
00:48:58.460 --> 00:49:11.729
Kimberly Crowe: topic was of interest to the people who walked in the room. If I wasn't of interest to them, they didn't even come in. So I feel like, unless you're a 4th grade teacher and your students do not want to listen. You pretty much. Have a really cool audience in there.

236
00:49:12.220 --> 00:49:38.029
Lindsay Ford: I love that perspective. People like, you know. For the most part they're here. Yeah, they're here to see you. They're not here to like tear you down. They're actually like genuinely interested in you and what you have to say, and for many of them, if you do screw up, it makes you more human, more relatable, and it also gives them permission to be imperfect, too. So I really do feel like, regardless of how you show up. It's it's absolutely perfect and meant to be

237
00:49:39.230 --> 00:49:45.309
Lindsay Ford: so. I think this is the perfect place to wrap up Kimberly. How can people find you and work with you if they'd like to.

238
00:49:45.600 --> 00:49:55.389
Kimberly Crowe: Well, if you're interested in getting on stages or finding out about podcasts like this one, that you might be able to speak on, I would encourage you to come to speakers. Playhouse.

239
00:49:55.390 --> 00:50:18.810
Kimberly Crowe: speakersplayhouse.com is where you can find it, and it is a free event that happens. Live on zoom every single Thursday, at 1030 Am. Pacific to noon Pacific. We bring on show hosts like Lindsay that I'm going to try and talk you into coming to the next couple, but, like Lindsay, who are looking actively looking right now for guest experts to speak on certain topics.

240
00:50:18.810 --> 00:50:48.709
Kimberly Crowe: and then you all, everyone that is, a speaker as well gets a chance to come onto the mic and share the types of shows they're looking to get on and their talk title, so you'll get a chance to interact and meet. But it's not just a regular networking event. It is a gamified game show. Super fast paced a little bit like Mr. Toad's wild ride meets. Whose line is it, anyway? And it's a lot of fun happens again every Thursday. It's totally free to attend. We'd love to have you and your audience there.

241
00:50:49.040 --> 00:50:53.930
Lindsay Ford: Amazing. Thank you so much for being here, Kimberly. I really really enjoyed this conversation.

242
00:50:53.930 --> 00:50:55.610
Kimberly Crowe: Ditto! Cheers.